Crepuscular Light - Latest Comments

Re: Ted McDonald – Procrastinator Man

Ted McDonald — Fri, 23 Dec 2011 08:55:37 -0000

I'm really glad that by job at Verisign is secure because there's no way in hell I'm getting another job after this :)

Re: Ted McDonald – Procrastinator Man

Nancy Duley — Thu, 22 Dec 2011 14:58:21 -0000

Oh my, the McDonald Ukulele Trio, I'd love to see that!

Re: Pritesh Patel – One-Of-Many Man

Jeff Katz — Thu, 22 Dec 2011 14:32:13 -0000

Pritesh's visual answer to the 23 sycamore saplings and 15 biscuit crumbs just might be the best response in this entire series, save interview numero uno

Re: Pritesh Patel – One-Of-Many Man

Jen — Mon, 12 Dec 2011 17:02:34 -0000

Iron Web Analyst. YES.

Also, I went to school with another Jennifer Day. You have all my sympathies. Since there are *only* 253 Jennifer Day's on LinkedIn, I guess I'm lucky?

Re: Richard Calentine – Paper Valentine Man

Jen — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 20:53:07 -0000

potato points!

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Emer Kirrane — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 07:37:08 -0000

Yes! We did talk about this and I ended up being too slammed to be any use at all. It would be good to look at this again. Have you considered joining the Exam Committee when you're a CWA? Maybe we could put our heads together as a group.

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Steve Jackson — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 07:29:40 -0000

As an aside we discussed doing this package which would result in a free online test that judges your ability to pass the certification. I volunteered to drive it but I confess I haven't the time nor the necessary support to take it on in addition to everything else I am doing.

I am more than happy to help make this happen but I simply can't do it alone and need to first sit the exam in order to know how to craft an online test. That part I'll do in March probably as I have arranged with the help of the WAA a test centre in Helsinki.

My reasons for this are selfish as I believe I can put my staff through the course as part of their training.

It's better than paying for Omniture training and with discounts it's comparable pricing.

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Emer Kirrane — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 07:25:10 -0000

Thanks Steve! I'll take your comments back to both the Membership and Exam committees.
Cheers,
E

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Steve — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 07:17:15 -0000

Hi Emer,

I think the biggest reason people don't join is a lack of value for the fee. You mentioned what you got out of it and that's great but you've invested a great deal in your education, much more than 200 a year. You did the certification, you have spent a lot of time and money traveling and got really active with the WAA. Unfortunately most folks don't have the leadership skills you have and I mean that from the perspective of making an event happen, meeting people and leading them to make other things happen.

I was really active for 3-4 years and have been a member since 2005 day one really. I helped kick things off in my part of the world and I believe it has helped Finland and the Nordics keep up with the rest of Europe, but after I personally couldn't commit to more than helping behind the scenes I saw more and more problems with the membership fee and its perceived value.

A WAW is a free event. I can even ask Eric nicely and he might sponsor some drinks. The WAA events we run alongside have presentations, good local speakers, sometimes free food and free drinks are pretty much obligatory but we don't charge a fee because the events are expected to be free. That's not a criticism of the WAWs I'm just saying why pay a fee when it's all free anyway? As a member we don't get anything extra OR and this is important if we do get extra the it isn't obvious.

You are the exception to the rule. Most people who pay dues expect to get more than a WAA badge.

Personally I think this can be fixed by the certification process. As a member you should be given a package that trains you how to pass the exam. As a non member you don't get it. I would go as far to say that non member should pay treble to sit the exam.

Re: Claudiu Murariu – Padi-Man

Claudiu Murariu — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 10:49:27 -0000

Thank you Jen and Joseph.
Joseph, I'll just do that though I am afraid of what might happen if people will never leave my websites again.
I hope there is no such thing as online deprivation of liberty :)

Emer, thank you very much for the interview. Hope to see you soon.

Re: Claudiu Murariu – Padi-Man

Joseph Carrabis — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 10:18:41 -0000

Claudiu&Emer, my thanks for this excellently amusing post (I
genuinely chuckled!) and for the nod. Contact me, Claudiu, and we'll
find a way to help you understand the reason(s) people are abandoning
and bouncing your or other sites.
Also, I'm familiar with Dudamel's work and haven't had the pleasure of a live performance yet.

And thanks again for the chuckles.

Joseph

Re: Claudiu Murariu – Padi-Man

Jen — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 09:56:48 -0000

bravo!

Re: Anil Batra – Batman

Emer Kirrane — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:48:53 -0000

But that wouldn't be very silly though, would it? You can visit Anil's excellent blog at http://webanalysis.blogspot.co...

Re: Anil Batra – Batman

Ryan Johnson — Tue, 15 Nov 2011 14:30:02 -0000

This is my introduction to your site. I think this Batra interview could be improved with at least some discussion on actual analytics, perhaps his insights that most people might be missing.

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Emer Kirrane — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:44:04 -0000

Thanks so much for all the feedback folks! Any and all other thoughts are welcomed. I'll take all of this back to WAA [virtual] HQ.

Eric - thanks for clarifying the WAW situation also.

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Bob Mitchell — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:43:13 -0000

Watching closely. :-D

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Eric T. Peterson — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:22:13 -0000

FWIW I shot an email to most of the WAA Board of Directors saying "hey you all, go reply to Kevin on Emer's thread." I can assure you that the WAA needs money and that they spend it on good and wise things, but it's not my place to say that nor defend the Association (of which I am not a member.)

I also suggested that a little more transparency may be in order when it comes to revenue and expenses. The WAA is a non profit and so I suspect that there are different rules for publishing the numbers (but my suspicion is that they are looser, maybe I'm wrong.)

Anyway ...

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Eric T. Peterson — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:19:50 -0000

You can actually participate in the future of Web Analytics Wednesday if you like. Email me off this thread and we can scheme ... um ... plan.

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Peter O'Neill — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 16:16:31 -0000

Thanks Eric, I thought I had seen something saying the WAW was not endorsed by the WAA, clearly mistaken. The issue for me with the local chapter events is they have all occured in the US so far. I don't really care what the event is called, just that there is a widely known opportunity for the local web analytics community to get together to discuss life & trade notes over a couple of quiet drinks. Looking forward to hearing the future plans for WAW though.

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Eric T. Peterson — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 15:28:21 -0000

I can cover this one ... we actually do have an agreement in place between "Web Analytics Wednesday" (a Web Analytics Demystified brand) and the Association and have for years. If you were to dig back into your old WAA emails you'd see that they used to promote local WAW events in the sidebar (again, thanks to our agreement.)

That said, with the new (very effective, very awesome) Board of Directors there is a shift towards more local chapters and events. These have happened in Boston, Austin, Seattle, and more recently Philly. I am excited about this shift from the WAA and see these events and WAW as entirely complimentary.

What's more, and some of you are aware of this, we are starting to take Web Analytics Wednesday in a new direction starting in 2012. I don't want to say too much, but it's exciting work and we believe we can use WAW to fill a gap in the industry that has existed for far too long.

Anyway, that's the deets on your question. I'm not touching the other question with a 100 foot pole!

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Peter O'Neill — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 13:15:37 -0000

Oh - and can someone clarify why the WAA doesn't support or recognise Web Analytics Wednesdays? They are the meetings for the web analytics community around the world - that is unlikely to change - why can't they be made official?

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Peter O'Neill — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:42:59 -0000

The reason I haven't joined is the fees, would love to be a member but trying to minimise costs/cashflow outgoings as an independent consultant. If there was a clear benefit to me, then I would pay the money but yet to see one.

I agree with Kevin and a big question is why are the funds required? What are the costs of running the organisation if committee members are volunteers? Are there any paid employees and what is their remit? For covering costs like website hosting, I assume events would raise sufficient funds to cover this - esp given cost to participants of eMetrics compared to Accelerate with equal access to sponsors (actually assume these events would make a fair profit).

Still yet to see any statement from the WAA disagreeing with any web analytics practices e.g. Flash cookies or calling out any unethical companies - would be more inclined to support the organisation if they were seen to be doing something like that.

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Randy Zwitch — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:40:08 -0000

The last time this came up over on Evan's blog, I wrote an extensive run-down of benefits and how I don't perceive their value. See here:

http://www.atlantaanalytics.co...

Interestingly, on Evan's blog there is a link to when Jason T. asked the question in 2010. Doesn't look like the WAA is doing too well in addressing the concerns.

To paraphrase, for me it all comes down to money. I'm not looking for a ton of benefits from the WAA, because as Kevin references, there are so many other avenues to participate and learn from for free. Blogs, research our companies already buy, LinkedIn and Web Analytics Wednesday's for networking and job hunting, Twitter, blogging/running your own site to learn, Analysis Exchange to help others, etc.

The only benefit I see that I can't get elsewhere is the discount...but I went to the WAA symposium in Philly, and it was $50 for non-members and $40 (?) for members. At a $10 discount, you need to attend a ton of events for the $199 to pay off...and my company paid for my symposium ticket anyway, so the discount didn't matter.

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Randy Zwitch — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:28:45 -0000

Re: Why don’t you want to join the WAA? Really, why? Tell me!

Kevin Rogers — Thu, 10 Nov 2011 12:06:16 -0000

I disagree that they need funds to operate.

I feel an organization like the WAA should be made up of individuals who simply have the desire to help the advancement and awareness of the analytics community, and do it willingly in their free time. Looking at other groups such as the Analysis Exchange, the Yahoo Web Analytics Group, and then the numerous Web Analytics blogs, clearly shows that there are many individuals who are happy to help the industry with no desire for any type of payment. I personally have been helping others with analytics for years in many different situations without ever asking for or expecting anything in return, and will continue to do so. If this type of organization feel they need funds, then there are other ways to go about it, such as by accepting donations or selling branded merchandise. I think allowing members to join for free without asking for anything in return would improve the view of the WAA in the community. If their must be some kind of fee, then let it be incredibly reasonable, something like $10 for a lifetime membership. I feel the fees are the number 1 thing holding them back.